Logging in Walker Valley

[G_Stratton]

Looks like the logging has begune next to the main jeep trail.

Havok and I headed for the Expressway after the work party on Saturday 15th. About a 1/2 mile after the stream crossing the logging begins, and alot of trees have fallen across the trail.

I believe the trail is a boundery line for the cutting, and all the trees should be cleaned up, but untill they are, wheeling at Walker will be a real short trip.

Guy

[Kimmy]

The DNR advised us quite some time ago that a particular sale would affect the main 4wd trail, we just didnt know exactly when. When the timber company gets a sale it is my understanding they have 2years to cut the timber, with this cutting started I would guess its going to be at least a month if not several before we *may* have access again.

Keep in mind when the timber is gone off the trail, that doesnt necessarily mean there will be a "trail" there anymore and it is NOT the timber companies responsibility to go and put the trail back in. We are considering (with the DNR) a re-route of this portion of the trail anyhow since it was an old logging grade with very little challenge.

More news, when things get close to maybe opening back up, will be posted here.

[Jeepmauler]

Seems to me that going back through after the logging company is gone and clearing off the road grade would be the best/easiest way to get the milage back.

[Kimmy]

Personally I've love to see a re-route in that section Jeff. Sure the old logging grade would probably be easy to get back in but there are some decent lines up hill that maybe would have more of a challenge. Will definately will share your input along with anyone else's though with the DNR. ;)

[Kimmy]

From the sounds of it, the trail is not even useable to the creek at this time. A member here indicated it was logged to the gate, so the below info may be a bit older...

Main Jeep Trail closed.

The main jeep trail in Walker Valley is closed about 1.5 miles from the
trailhead due to timber sale activity. The trail is blocked by downed timber just past the Walker Creek bridge. The logs should be removed within 2 to 3 weeks. Until then, it may not be advisable to use this trail from the trailhead since it is such a short drive/ride to a turn around.

I'll let everyone know when the trail can be opened again.

Tom.

Tom Murley
Special Lands Coordinator
NW Region
Department of Natural Resources
919 N. Township St.
Sedro-Woolley, WA 98284
(360) 856-3500
tom.murley@wadnr.gov

[Kimmy]

Talked with Tom Murley last week, the Main Line Trail is still closed (this is the old "jeep" trail that goes around the gate (legally) in the parking lot area off Peter Burns Rd and runs out the backside.

Some folks have been using the Lower HoCheMinh Trail (or AKA Lower "Jeep" Trail) from Lk Cavanaugh Road, technically this access was closed by the DNR as we have been building a "loop trail" for access, (this "loop" has not been completed yet-but many of you attended the work party in Nov and got to see part of the trail with the bridge decking installation-THANK YOU!) and with the main 4wd trails not open for use due to logging, there isnt much reason for access according to the DNR at this time.

Just wanted to give you all an update. WV is still closed to 4wd use due to logging activity in the area of the main 4wd trails, its gonna look a lot different once the trail is brushed open again and folks get to run it for the first time. Should get some more open views of the Skagit Valley. :cool:

[Nobody]

2 Questions

If the trails are closed, why are there still motorcycles accessing them?

If the lower jeep trail is closed, Why were the Jeep access posts left in tact after re-digging the tank traps?

[Kimmy]

1. Dirt bikes have trails other than the Main Line 4wd Trail to use to access other open bike trails.

2. I dont have a concrete answer for you. I was told that the DNR (since they manage the land) has regulations that mandate certain types of roads be closed, that one had been on the list to decomission due to no plans for future logging sites to be accessed by that road. Maybe the guys digging the road up (decomissioning) werent told to remove the signs.?

Again, with the main line trail closed, only the Short & Dirty (old "Jeep" Cross) could "potentially" be accessed by the Lower HoCheMinh Trail, run in and turn around and run it back out. Not much point in making a drive for that short of trail run IMHO.

[Nobody]

Originally posted by Kimmy
1. Dirt bikes have trails other than the Main Line 4wd Trail to use to access other open bike trails.

I went up there last weekend for the first time in over a year to scope things out. The metal sign at the gate said "Trails Closed" and the usual 4 million motorcycles blowing right past the sign.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this one, but something just doesn't sit right. I think it boils down to the motorcycles have other trials, which raises the question "WHY DON'T WE?".


2. I dont have a concrete answer for you. I was told that the DNR (since they manage the land) has regulations that mandate certain types of roads be closed, that one had been on the list to decomission due to no plans for future logging sites to be accessed by that road. Maybe the guys digging the road up (decomissioning) werent told to remove the signs.?

Again, with the main line trail closed, only the Short & Dirty (old "Jeep" Cross) could "potentially" be accessed by the Lower HoCheMinh Trail, run in and turn around and run it back out. Not much point in making a drive for that short of trail run IMHO.

I was hesitent to even bring this one up. I'm 100% against the lower jeep trail being closed.

Your comment about decomissioning implies that only logging roads are open for 4wd use. What's wrong with changing the status to a 4wd trail and calling it good.

This whole Walker Valley thing has me pretty pissed off. Especially the seasonal BS. As I mentioned I hadn't even been up there in over a year because of all the politics and being extremely busy with life. My life is finally slowing down and I want to do some good quality wheelin close to home, but I can't because the one place near by has closed the door.

Walker is a big place, if they are logging one area, we should be building new trails where there is no logging.

What's with taking over 2 years to build a new trail? Paint some markers on the trees in approved areas and the trail will build itself ...... quickly. I understand the need for bridges and some trail maintenance in legit problem areas.

I'm sure I sound ignorant, and to some extent I expect I am....... But generally things seem to be over complicated. Too many politics.

[Jeepmauler]

Agreed.

[Kimmy]

As someone who has been ACTIVELY involved at WV for 12 years plus, we have seen personnel changes, lots of logging activity etc. I am not going to tell you how many meetings Ive attended on behalf of WV, letters I've written, work parties I've attended but I will tell you one thing, its kind of frustrating to see a lot of folks whine about it being closed yet, due to blah blah blah yet do very little else about it.

You dont realize how much lobbying that the motorcycle groups do. They dont fight as much internally as the 4wd community does about this that and everything else. They raise money and pay for lobbyists to fight their battles in Olympia, do we 4wd folks do that? why not? someone want to step up off the keyboard and volunteer?

I cant remember the last time we wheeled at WV, two years maybe, but I know we spent countless weekends working on the trails up there. Wet conditions, poor choice of trail location, overuse of the 4wd trail by bikes, lack of volunteers etc all have bearing on the trail not being completed.

Sorry Matt, Im not happy with the situation either. Why dont you write or call the Sedro Woolley DNR office and offer to go help put the trail back in and find out for us when we can expect to see it reopen or the logging to be done so that we can all start working on getting it reopened.

[Nobody]

Pissing you off is not my intention. I totally respect the effort you have put into WV.

I have no desire to be involved with the politics. I'm not a politician. I'm not exactly sure where you fall into the mix, but you seem to be very involved, and seem to represent the 4 wheelers in a lobbyist sort of way. I assumed you are a represenative of DNR. I'm taking the time to voice my opinion to you. Does that count for nothing?

I sort of feel bad about not attending the work parties, but I'm opposed to it as far as the trail building goes. There's no need. If I were allowed, I'd be out there making some trails, and I wouldn't be alone. Why does it matter if the trail goes to the left or right of a tree, so long as it goes generally in the right direction from point A to point B. It all gets mowed down in the end anyway.

You don't have a lack of voluteers. You have a lack of motivation. The politics are killing that motivation. The bootleg trails should make it obvious. How does a bootleg trail seemingly pop up overnight and a legit trail take over 2 years? The voluteers and motivation are there, they just need to be focused in a positive manner.

Because I'm voicing my opinion I'm a whinner? Please. I'm also quite aware of what actively voluteering is about. It's no wonder people are scared to speak out.

Why aren't we more like the motorcycle crowd with lobbyists etc....

Well I can only speak for myself, but 4 wheelin for me is all about getting away from it all.

[BULLDOG]

I have a lot to say on this topic, but since my internet conection keeps going down. I will keep it short.

Kimmy has done a lot to keep walker valley open. With out the work she has done and organized it would have been closed by know. She love wheelin just like the rest of us, only she has stood up and taken charge to keep land open.

Walker Valley is DNR land they can do what they want with it including shutting it down. We need to work with them to keep it open for fourwheel drives. The volunteer work done at walker is suppervised and directed by the DNR.

We all need to work together (with the DNR) to keep DNR land open to the pubic.

[Nobody]

Matt I look forward to what you have to say.

As for supervised......... I don't need it, don't want it. I'm supervised 40 hrs a week, I certainly am not looking for supervision on the weekend. Just because I don't have a Phd in biology or whatever, doesn't mean I don't know how to cut a trail.

AUTHORIZED is all I need. "here are your boundaries, go have fun". Guaranteed a trail would be cut almost over night and quickly hardened. It's obvious it's not about building the trails or voluteering. There is a clear resistence to ORV use. Not that surprises any of us.

I've been doing some digging, and I'm not liking what I'm finding :mad:

[Kimmy]

I guess that is what keeps surprising me. Do you realize that you are probably never (and I say probably because never is a very long time) going to get the open "authorization" on DNR land to make trails however and where you want.

In western Wa I almost guarantee you that if you cut a trail it will NOT be hardened overnight..(maybe thats what the PhD in ecological studies would have told you?). Areas like walker valley, reiter have a ton of water under and over the surface of trails, that does not always have the best effects for long term use.

I am not trying to be mean, nor was I "pissed off AT you", but if you did understand that a trail just cant go "anywhere YOU want it to" maybe things would make more sense.

There are ecological issues to be considered, and just because you, I and most of the wheelers really dont care about those issues because we just want to go wheeling, mean that the DNR, Dept. Fish & Wildlife, Dept of Ecology and gosh know who else isnt keeping close tabs on it.

The sport may be in jeopardy with land closures popping up everywhere, soon we may not have anywhere else to go. I have gotten involved because I too love 4 wheeling as does my husband, we have worked hard at Walker Valley to make sure that 4wd's do have a voice. But guess what after 10 years and seeing some things work, some things not, changes at the DNR etc and spending more time there then out 4wheeling, we got burnt out.

Unfortunately most dont want to get into politics, honestly I didnt either. I would rather be 4wheeling, camping, hiking, riding my horses, hanging out with friends, but guess what all of that was not going to save the sport. So Terry and I jumped in to do what we could. We (the sport) needs you to be pro-active on some level, if that means writting one letter a week from the comfy confines of your home and spending 30 minutes a month that would be fine, some of the rest of you could go help with trail work parties, some of the other can attend meetings.

But sitting around just complaining about what has or hasnt been done by the 4wd community those of who are trying to do their best is not helping. Both Terry and I and many other work full time day jobs and for a few years I had a full time and a part time job and still spent Saturdays at WV doing work parties. Dont be mad at me Im doing the best I can.

ps. I am a volunteer, I do not "work" for the DNR but try to understand their policies and learn what we can and cant do. We have taken formal "trail building classes" and know how to build a trail.

[Kimmy]

Originally posted by Nobody
You don't have a lack of voluteers. You have a lack of motivation. The politics are killing that motivation. The bootleg trails should make it obvious. How does a bootleg trail seemingly pop up overnight and a legit trail take over 2 years? The voluteers and motivation are there, they just need to be focused in a positive manner.

Because I'm voicing my opinion I'm a whinner? Please. I'm also quite aware of what actively voluteering is about. It's no wonder people are scared to speak out.
[/B]

I have a lack of motivation? please explain

Bootleg trails pop up because there arent enough trails, there never will be. And when folks quit making them and using them there still wont be enough trails, but if they keep making them, they may just get the entire area shut down because they cant play by the rules.

Please explain how to focus the volunteers and motiviation in a postive manner.

People are scared to speak out. Why? Maybe because they dont know enough and are educating themselves before talking. This is a forum to discuss things, sure speak your mind, but dont be surprised if I speak mine and tell you what we've done to help the sport. I look forward to someday reading about how you've helped it. :)

[Nobody]

Originally posted by Kimmy
I guess that is what keeps surprising me. Do you realize that you are probably never (and I say probably because never is a very long time) going to get the open "authorization" on DNR land to make trails however and where you want.

Yes I do realize this. I didn't say where I want.

In western Wa I almost guarantee you that if you cut a trail it will NOT be hardened overnight..(maybe thats what the PhD in ecological studies would have told you?). Areas like walker valley, reiter have a ton of water under and over the surface of trails, that does not always have the best effects for long term use.

If walker valley is so sensitive, then I guess I don't understand how logging fits in.

I am not trying to be mean, nor was I "pissed off AT you", but if you did understand that a trail just cant go "anywhere YOU want it to" maybe things would make more sense.

Again. Not asking to put the trail where I want. I believe I suggested a DNR person mark the "GENERAL" course of an AUTHORIZED trail. Once the general path has been made, then you with your trail building experience would come in and tweak it in problem areas. I assure you I would be there to help.


There are ecological issues to be considered, and just because you, I and most of the wheelers really dont care about those issues because we just want to go wheeling, mean that the DNR, Dept. Fish & Wildlife, Dept of Ecology and gosh know who else isnt keeping close tabs on it.

Please enlighten the rest of us about these issues. What's wrong with discussing them on a public internet forum?


The sport may be in jeopardy with land closures popping up everywhere, soon we may not have anywhere else to go. I have gotten involved because I too love 4 wheeling as does my husband, we have worked hard at Walker Valley to make sure that 4wd's do have a voice. But guess what after 10 years and seeing some things work, some things not, changes at the DNR etc and spending more time there then out 4wheeling, we got burnt out.

Unfortunately most dont want to get into politics, honestly I didnt either. I would rather be 4wheeling, camping, hiking, riding my horses, hanging out with friends, but guess what all of that was not going to save the sport. So Terry and I jumped in to do what we could. We (the sport) needs you to be pro-active on some level, if that means writting one letter a week from the comfy confines of your home and spending 30 minutes a month that would be fine, some of the rest of you could go help with trail work parties, some of the other can attend meetings. .

You're not the only one that cares.


But sitting around just complaining about what has or hasnt been done by the 4wd community those of who are trying to do their best is not helping. Both Terry and I and many other work full time day jobs and for a few years I had a full time and a part time job and still spent Saturdays at WV doing work parties. Dont be mad at me Im doing the best I can.

Don't be so quick to judge. I'm not complaining, whinning, or any of the other labels you choose. I am publicly voicing my opinion. I am not unwilling to help. If I were allowed, I would be out there this weekend building a trail and I wouldn't be alone.


ps. I am a volunteer, I do not "work" for the DNR but try to understand their policies and learn what we can and cant do. We have taken formal "trail building classes" and know how to build a trail.

Thank you for clearing that up. Do you want people to ask you questions?

[Nobody]

Originally posted by Kimmy
I have a lack of motivation? please explain

Bootleg trails pop up because there arent enough trails, there never will be. And when folks quit making them and using them there still wont be enough trails, but if they keep making them, they may just get the entire area shut down because they cant play by the rules.

Please explain how to focus the volunteers and motiviation in a postive manner.

People are scared to speak out. Why? Maybe because they dont know enough and are educating themselves before talking. This is a forum to discuss things, sure speak your mind, but dont be surprised if I speak mine and tell you what we've done to help the sport. I look forward to someday reading about how you've helped it. :)

You took that comment out of it's intended context. You have a lack of motivated voluteers. Sorry if you took that wrong.

I've been trying to explain all along what it would take to get me out there, and what is keeping me away. The answer is pretty simple.

Many people are are scared to offend you.

In case you haven't noticed, I am trying to educate myself. I'm asking questions. Some of which don't have answers.

What's wrong with educating each other publicly on an internet forum?

Don't be so hostile. Believe it or not, we are on the same side.

[BULLDOG]

Well I keep getting kicked off when I go to post or I would contribute.

Matt I think if you whent to a work party you would find out it is differn't than you think.

The logging industry wins over the environment because of money. We loose to the environment because of money. If the 4x4 buisness comunity would stand up and fight for our sport that might be different.

[G_Stratton]

How it was explained to me at a DNR meeting.

And how I see it.

DNR is charged by the State of Washington with the duty of managing resources on state lands, primarily for the purpose of raising moneys for our school systems. Their secondary function is to allow and manage public access to DNR controlled state lands. If public access to the land damages the resources, DNR is within its rights to deny access to its lands.

Lets define “resources” as DNR sees them. Trees are a resource, vegetation is a resource, wildlife is a resource, minerals are a resource, water is a resource, and even soil is a resource. Basically everything on DNR land can be considered a resource.

Now we all know that trees are a huge resource and the logging of them on DNR land raises a lot of money for our school systems, but we probably don’t consider dirt to be a resource. DNR considers soil to be a resource and conducts soil studies to gauge the impact of erosion of the soil on its land. It seems, in Walker Valley, that one of the major impacts to cause soil eroding is the rutting of trails in the soft soil. These ruts usually channel the water, and the soil that is picked up by the water, to streams. Streams that contain fish, fish that the Department of Fish and Wildlife are very interested in. Did you know that the Department of Fish and Wildlife could also close your access to DNR lands?

Almost all of the trails at Walker Valley were “Just made”. No real planning was put into making them. Individuals, such as us, would see a fun route to take and presto, we had a trail. It seems that most of these trails run right along the side of streams, creeks and marshy areas, which accelerates the erosion of the soil and the silting of the streams. The management of the trails that DNR wants, looks ahead to the future of the trail, and the impact that it will have on the resources of Walker Valley. This means designing trails that are located away from wet areas, and made in such a manner as to decrease the erosion of soils by hardening soft areas and locating natural drainage to quickly remove water from the trail before it can reach a stream. DNR also want us to help in the management and design of the trails. DNR understands that we need the trails to be challenging. DNR also understand that we wont stop wheeling if they close Walker Valley down. They realize that If Walker Valley is closed that we will move to other areas to peruse our passion of wheeling, and DNR would rather have us wheeling in a known managed area, then in hundreds of unmanaged areas.

We, as a community of wheelers and 4x4 enthusiasts, need to become more involved in the management and care of our trails. The trails are our resource to a fun time, and our involvement and management of our trails will insure that they will be there for us to use for a long time. If we mismanage our trails or do nothing to maintain them, then we have no one to blame for losing them but ourselves. It is easy to sit back and complain, or make excuses, but if you don’t get out and help with the trails, the trails will disappear. And the few people who have shouldered the responsibility of managing and maintaining the trails can only do it, by themselves, for so long. Then they become burnt and stop fighting for your right to access the trails.

And then whom will you complain too?

Guy Stratton

[zukione]

:bounce1: Hell yeah,uhmm sorry but you hit it right on the head:bounce2:

(standing ovation)

You know that is the nice way of tellin people to get off their lazy asses and do some thing about it!!