weld or not?

[wanabwlr]

what are the pro's and con's about welding front difs? ok here's what i have, 74 cj5,dana 30 front,44 rear,power stering,with 33x12.5 tsl's don't have the cash to spend on an arb right at the moment also would like to upgrade to 44 before spending the cash on one.

[Maverick]

Turning sucks, unless you have hydro

[Phat 40]

Good question! I have just recently answered that personally. I started with a welded front and 33 X 12.5 X15 TSL swampers. I didnt see the big deal it drove ok, no worries Mikey liked! Well then I got carried away, I went SOA with the wrangler 6 leafs, launched the D30 and the AMC20 so I could put a HP60 and a D44 with 5.38's in! I figured what the hell might as well shove the front axle forward a few 2-3,(hmm how far did I move it 4+ ??,, the mind is a terrible thing to taste) inches too so I could get out of the fenders.



So, its about now that you are wondering what this has to do with the price of rice, another good question, but I digress. Any how so I started this journey with a welded D30 and a AMC20 with a Detroit locker so I figured, the Detroit was the absolute shits on the pavement so I might as well go spool (full spool no namby pamby chit in my rig :redneck: ) and since I had the welded front with no problems I figured the same up there was a good thing too! (spool that is!) Well, this is where the story takes a wicked twist ( I think Roger warned me about this before hand too), With my new tires ( 36" IROK's, a guy cant run 33" tires on a sprung over Jeep, it just aint right!) the dam thing is next to impossible to turn! Ive hogged out my power steering pump (now it squeals and heats up like a btich) with very little improvement.

So, the point, yes that is where I was going, to a point. If you got little narrow tires you MAY be able to pull it off. There is a definate loss in your turning radius. If your running big tires you might as well wheel a school bus, because they turn sharper! :D

Or you do what Im gonna do, you step back, put both hands in your pockets and start throwing wads of greenbacks at it in the form of hydro steering! whooo... by all means, if you have further questions, let me know. I have done it all wrong once. :p :cool:

[davids78bronco]

Phat, was your steering problems in 4wd, or 2wd? On the trail, or in town?

[Maverick]

Steering problems should occur in 4wd

[Harv. of Sorrow]

Originally posted by blackzj3
Steering problems should occur in 4wd


Wrong...The axles are still locked...you are fighting the same problems plus that Akerman guy and his theories.

[NOI-54X]

Ran a 53 willys no power anything and 33's welded front/rear turning was no problem in or out of 4 wheel only time had difficulty was when one hub was engaged SO HAVE HUBS BOTH ENGAGED OR NOT ENGAGED! :redneck:

[toyotanut]

Originally posted by wanabwlr
what are the pro's and con's about welding front difs?

What it comes down to is the tire size you are running or going to run. Such as 86 Laredo and Phat 40 said, 33's are not a prob except you lose just a little bit of turning radius. I also had a welded front and 33's and could turn with out a tire, but when you start getting into the larger tires you are going to be fighting that much more and will be that much harder to turn. Just my two bits

[64fj40]

You guys are talking about different scenarios. With a welded front diff, the steering will be affected if you have any two of three(LF wheel, RF wheel, rear axle) mechanically connected. I'm going to leave out the significance of welded/locked rear axle.

If you shift into 2WD and your hubs are still locked, no good steering. If you unlock one hub, but leave it in 4WD, it should be better, but still not good. Either unlock both hubs or unlock one hub, AND shift to 2WD, and it's all good.

Maybe someone can explain how having full hydraulic steering makes the slightest bit of difference? It's not a problem of how far you can turn the wheels or how hard it is to turn them. It's about differences in rotational velocities between the independent wheels. Or are you talking about having rear steering capabilities? If that's the case, then I can see it.

Eric

[NOI-54X]

NO NO NO you don't want to run a welded front diff. with one hub locked you get serious power torque steer from that and is really hazerdious going down hill under compression. a locker will lock and unlock in diff conditions and still most of the power goes to the free wheeling side. So be safe and just go with a locker of some kind.

[Phat 40]

Originally posted by 64fj40
Maybe someone can explain how having full hydraulic steering makes the slightest bit of difference? It's not a problem of how far you can turn the wheels or how hard it is to turn them. It's about differences in rotational velocities between the independent wheels. Or are you talking about having rear steering capabilities? If that's the case, then I can see it.

Eric


no, no, no! The tires literally will not leave the pointing forward position! I can lay my shackles over / / by reefing on the wheel with the steering box and the tires will barely turn! the whole axle assembly is shifting under the rig due to the forces in effect!:wow:

the hydro (whether it be full or assist) at least allows the wheels to turn because the turning force is applied from the axle housing to the axle housing versus from the frame to the axle housing. This takes all the shackle bushings out of the picture. A welded rig will never actually turn as well as one with some give (IE locker,limited,ect.) since it will still push. But it definately will not turen if you cant get the wheels to move on their verticle axis. As I said i can get by with the limited turnablilty as long as my wheels ACTUALLY TURN! its the damdest thing. I denied it right up to the point (or should I say 32 point turns) of actually driving it.

And yes, if you throw out one hub (whether in 4X or 2X), it greatly helps, but then why did I put the spool in? Getting in and out all the time is the chits! (i think I hear an electralok calling)

[Phat 40]

Originally posted by davids78bronco
Phat, was your steering problems in 4wd, or 2wd? On the trail, or in town?

the problems occur whenever the hubs are both locked. :p

It makes little difference if the thing is in 2X or 4X.

[sandusk]

so what kind of a guy rolls around with only one hub locked in?

[Phat 40]

Originally posted by sandusk
so what kind of a guy rolls around with only one hub locked in?

the kind that was dumb enough to put a spool in the front :redneck:

:finger:

[wanderingwillys]

Originally posted by Phat 40
the kind that was dumb enough to put a spool in the front :redneck:

:finger:

Or do a hydro assist - I run a welded front and have one finger steering (once I fix these intermittent spool issues with my P/S box - orbital valve here I come!)

Pushing can be an issue - wheels are turned to lock and I am kinda still going straight :D (only an occasional problem - but worth 600$ in my pocket)

[fubar cj]

Welding the front up is a bad idea. I had my front and rear welded up in my old 30 and 44 that used to reside in my Heep. The rig will push like a mofo on the trail, it will not want to pull the direction that you turn! Not only that, but since there is literally no place for the excessive torque to go (no wheel spin-out, or even a little bit of locker lash) you'll break something sooner rather than later. First my lock-rite had broken, then the carrier broke. And when the carrier went, it spit pieces through the R&P, ruining them too. Just put an ARB in the front and no worries. I've been running mine up front for about four years now and I'm extremely happy with it. It gives you excellent steering input when disengaged, and then you turn it on for the brief times when you need full traction.