Ford 9", why no love for it?

[wheeler4life]

i was just wondering why there is so little love for the 9"? you hear all about people putting 60's and 14bolts in the rear but why not a 9"? don't get me wrong, 60's and 14blts are great but it's like watching a dog drag his butt across the lawn. take a look under a dragster with 1000plus hp. what do ya see? 9". they've got incredible ground clearance. drop out design with hyatt bearing on the pinion means incredible strength. no cast on the housing so welding link mounts and traction bars on is a breeze. tons of them came with factory disc brakes. and you can buy 35 spline axles for about every length of housing. not to mention parts are dime a dozen because it's so widely used. i'm not trying to dog other axles by any means. just was kind-of curious why a 9" isn't a more common swap?

[Neckster]

Originally posted by wheeler4life
i was just wondering why there is so little love for the 9"? you hear all about people putting 60's and 14bolts in the rear but why not a 9"? don't get me wrong, 60's and 14blts are great but it's like watching a dog drag his butt across the lawn. take a look under a dragster with 1000plus hp. what do ya see? 9". they've got incredible ground clearance. drop out design with hyatt bearing on the pinion means incredible strength. no cast on the housing so welding link mounts and traction bars on is a breeze. tons of them came with factory disc brakes. and you can buy 35 spline axles for about every length of housing. not to mention parts are dime a dozen because it's so widely used. i'm not trying to dog other axles by any means. just was kind-of curious why a 9" isn't a more common swap?


Hmmm, where to begin.......
First of all, the 1000 plus horsepower dragsters you are talking about have 9's that are worth thousands of dollars. Also, the offroad application puts WAAYYY different strains and pressures on an axle than racing in a straight line. But to answer your question, here is my opinion.

(these are all reasons the 9 inch sucks so very much so)
1.) Too small of ring gear (not much better than a 44)
2.) Lowest possible driveline of any other diff out there. I would rather drag my butt on the lawn then to constantly kill drivelines.
3.) Hypoid gear design. The teeth drag against each other causing friction and heat, therefore weekening the gear (and it also causes a loss of roughly 10 hp!)
4.) If you are to run a high pinion, then you go to an 8.8 gear... weaker yet!!

I guess one thing that stands out in my mind is this: If the 9 inch is such a great axle, then how come Currie no longer runs them in their vehicles?? They got tired of breaking 9's and now run 60's only. To me that makes quite a statement when the world's leading aftermarket manufacturer of 9 inch diffs isn't even running them. Basically, some people love em, and I HATE em. It is just a matter of personal preference.

[Not-Jobless]

I've been running 9's front & rear in my POS for a couple of years now....

.....but the only thing that is really a 9" is the center section & third member. Which are both nodular 3.25" bearing, 35 spline units. Sure, they are low pinion but it's never created any drama for me while wheelin, they just wouldn't be ideal for a comp only rig.

I guess the other thing is that it probably would cost more to build up a front or rear 9" with 35 spline than it would to do a 14 bolt or 60 the same way.

[carnuck]

real easy answer: 9" doesn't come factory full float! Nuff said!

[wheelinjp]

Originally posted by Jobless

I guess the other thing is that it probably would cost more to build up a front or rear 9" with 35 spline than it would to do a 14 bolt or 60 the same way.

You are right. If you want a 9in front you have to machine the tubes at the center section I believe for a carrier axle seal. SAame reason rear d60 centers dont make cheap fronts. The expense for the average joe is too high for that procedure , not to mention the cost of the rest of it. I thought a 9in with d44 outers was a good plan until all that came up.

[Binder]

It's always been my opinion that the only reason a 9" has any popularity at all is because it's a drop out. It all stems from hot rod guys who don't know how to set up a ring and pinion.
If it wasn't for this no one would use em.
;)

[Roadkill]

[/B][/QUOTE]
1.) Too small of ring gear (not much better than a 44)
[/B][/QUOTE]


Sorry, but this is rediculous. See side by side photos here of the ring and pinion sets.

http://www.sunrayengineering.com/nine.html

[Jeepmauler]

Nines are for Fags,everyone knows that!!:rolleyes:

[GPN Family]

I must be a fag to then......

but I have about 300$ into my gay 9" with 31 spline axles spool, 5.43s ,and disc brakes.

That by the way bolted into my Jeep except for the shock mounts.

My take on the whole drivline issue is if your to stupid to stay off it with a 9" How is a 60 going to make you a smarter driver:confused:

The ring gear diameter is obviously 9"s a 60 is 9.5"s and the 44 is 8.375 " so realisticly a 9 is closer to a 60 in this respect . Most 9'' R & P troubles are cuased by pinion suport failure which usualy is again from poor driving causing impacts to this area of the third member.

I know that a 60 housing is stronger how ever you don't hear of a 9" axle tube spinning on people like you do with Dana axles (which seems to be a pretty common problem)

But what do I know I am just a fag:finger:

[Jason C]

Originally posted by wheeler4life
i was just wondering why there is so little love for the 9"? you hear all about people putting 60's and 14bolts in the rear but why not a 9"? don't get me wrong, 60's and 14blts are great but it's like watching a dog drag his butt across the lawn. take a look under a dragster with 1000plus hp. what do ya see? 9". they've got incredible ground clearance. drop out design with hyatt bearing on the pinion means incredible strength. no cast on the housing so welding link mounts and traction bars on is a breeze. tons of them came with factory disc brakes. and you can buy 35 spline axles for about every length of housing. not to mention parts are dime a dozen because it's so widely used. i'm not trying to dog other axles by any means. just was kind-of curious why a 9" isn't a more common swap?


I say go ahead and put in the 9"... it is a very good diff and reasonable in price. you can always UPGRADE to the 60 later! :finger: What it comes right down to is what you need and what fits your budget. but if you are wanting to make a stron diff for the best price a 60 will be cheaper...... and there is no upgrade from it....

and whoever was saying that the 9" is stronger than a 44 is wrong... yeah the ring and pinion is PLENTY stronger than the 44 but the detroit and ARB are actually weaker in all cases... there is less room in the 9" carrier for the parts in the locker making them more prone to breakage.

[wheeler4life]

holly crap! didn't mean to open up a can of worms but what a great discussion. okay, i'm not as fast as you guys are so i'll do all my reply's at once.

neckster_ good point about currie. you're right on there. 10 hp heh....at what, 10 grand! at that speed i'd be more worried about the tread flying off my tires than what my hp loss was.

carnuck_VERY good point with the full float. the only downfall is that you'll spend about the same putting discs on 60 as you would making a full floater 9

wheelinjp_i agree there. although i haven't thrown out the idea totally. for the average person putting a nine in the front isn't very cost effective.

roadkill_ KILLER LINK BABY! ten points for putting some definite facts down on the table.

jeepmauler_ go back, finish the third grade, and stop by the store and pick up an intellegint comment on the way back. then come join the conversation:finger: :69:

gpn family_good point about the pinion failure. that is very true. most of the time ring and pinion gear failures accure is due to excessive pinion deflection. correct me if i'm wrong but that is the single reason for a hyatt bearing. ever seen one on a 60?

[Roadkill]

and whoever was saying that the 9" is stronger than a 44 is wrong... yeah the ring and pinion is PLENTY stronger than the 44 but the detroit and ARB are actually weaker in all cases... there is less room in the 9" carrier for the parts in the locker making them more prone to breakage. [/B]
:eek:
I'm not going to start quoting strength and weaknesses although the "HUGE" size difference should be evident enough. :confused: I'm just going to give my personal experience and say that with my rig, I used to have a 44 in the back and a 44R in the front. I've broken two ARBs in the rear and 4 ring gears(2 in the front and 2 in the back), all 4 axles in the front at one time and one side on another day, not to mention 2 sets of shafts in the rear. Since I put my 35 spline Ducthman shaft, Strange nodular center section, heavy duty pinion support and Detroit lockered 9" under my jeep, I have not broken it yet and am way more abusive on it. :eek: (btw, I admit it, I have alot into it~$1100) I would NEVER, EVER put a weak-ass :rainbow: 44 back under my rig. :wow:

[team ram_rod]

What is all the fuss about the 9" vs. the 60. We run D35's front and rear in our AMC Eagle, and have never had any troubles. Even when jumping it we have seen very little breakage....

[GPN Family]

Originally posted by SNORTclown
I say go ahead and put in the 9"... it is a very good diff and reasonable in price. you can always UPGRADE to the 60 later! :finger: What it comes right down to is what you need and what fits your budget. but if you are wanting to make a stron diff for the best price a 60 will be cheaper...... and there is no upgrade from it....

and whoever was saying that the 9" is stronger than a 44 is wrong... yeah the ring and pinion is PLENTY stronger than the 44 but the detroit and ARB are actually weaker in all cases... there is less room in the 9" carrier for the parts in the locker making them more prone to breakage.

A spool removes this problem from a 9" how ever I would have no problem with using a 60 but the 9" was a easy swap and there were quite a few parts laying around for it.


And BTW Wheeler4life Jeepmauler had no trouble with the third grade he got hung up in fifth. That is why he has 9" diffs front and rear:finger:

[Dude]

Originally posted by jeepmauler
Nines are for Fags,everyone knows that!!:rolleyes:

Ya what you said. :finger: 60s, there is no subsitute. well maybe rockwells.

[carnuck]

Originally posted by team ram_rod
What is all the fuss about the 9" vs. the 60. We run D35's front and rear in our AMC Eagle, and have never had any troubles. Even when jumping it we have seen very little breakage....
That's a D30 straight cut in the front! (same as CJ, but wrong side) XJ run reverse cut.
If anyone wants an '82 Eagle wagon body with 3.08 gears (rear axle is XJ D35 swapped in) it's free! Parked on S. 51st, just 1/2 a block from Ryan's way (aka Boeing Access road)

[barnacle]

If my rig was full size i would run a 60. But in a rig that aint ever gonna weigh over 5k, and is only gonna see a 5.0 motor and 37inch tall rubber, i have no problems running my 9inch. It helps that its 35spline but i think that even a 31spline unit would hold up just fine. I like the ground clearance gained from running the 9inch. { Only running 33 inch rubber}

[wanderingwillys]

Originally posted by wheeler4life

gpn family_good point about the pinion failure. that is very true. most of the time ring and pinion gear failures accure is due to excessive pinion deflection. correct me if i'm wrong but that is the single reason for a hyatt bearing. ever seen one on a 60?

The whole reason for the hyatt bearing was the fact the ford did not use enough seperation between the two pinion bearings to maintain reliable backlash control - thus they put a band-aid on it (a third bearing)

It is not an extra - it is required to make the axle work!

That said I run a cut down and shaved 9" from an 86' E-150; I have about $300 into the whole deal for misc drum brake hardware, gears, a mini spool, new 1350 yoke, and one shortened axle (via dutchman) to center the pinion...

I do scrape the pinion from time to time but I would have to do some serious scrounging to make a FF or even SF D60 (likely still LP) work for 300 bucks

I think of the nine as a intermediary between a 44 and a 60 - definitely not an equal to the 60

Matt

[632bbnova]

neck is right for wheeln 9's are weak. you can not campare crawln to racing. i do both. a 9" in a 1/4 mile car is about 24"to 36" flange to flange. you could not put my 632ci bb in front of a full width 9"or 60 unless you put alot of work into it.just the housing for my car is $1.100 from morrison.

[bronczilla]

I have never had an issue w/ my 9", its a durable axel. If I had the $$$ I would build 60s but until then my 9" works well for me.

[Tech Tim]

Whichever CLOWN :D said this is totally wrong:

"but the detroit and ARB are actually weaker in all cases... "


Can't say much about the Detroit except the full carrier unit is stronger than the add-in unit.

But I do know Air Lockers very well and the 9" Air Locker is way stronger than the D44 A.L.. On average 6-10 D44 Air Lockers come back for warranty inspection each year (not bad considering the hundreds that are sold and that those broken are usually from collateral damage- broken axle shaft, bent housing etc.) But we do get a couple back that were just broken and the guys who've done it are candidates for a 9" or D60, so the D44 A.L. is strong, BUT....

We've had a total of one 9" Air Locker with a mechanical failure come back in the 7+ years it's been released and that just happened month or two back. Yeah, had a couple come back due to loose R.G. bolts and a cool one from a 9" housing that was bent like a U. But only one mechanical failure and there are some guys that are thumping the hell out of them. I am not counting the early models that had their seal problems (all warrantied) as we are talking strength, not reliability.

The main reason Currie isn't running 9"s in their rigs is they want a hi-pin and the hi-pin 8.8/9 set-up isn't strong enough. They just set-up Shannon Campbells new rig with front and rear 9s, its mid-engined so they run 'em upside down to go the right direction and end up with a higher pin than the 60. Shannon opted for the new 35 spline 9" Air Lockers and won the RCAA championship event (not the series just the event) (think he might have had a DT in the front for that event, but ordered an A.L. to swap it out with).

Just need to design up a true hi-pin 9".... hmmm....

[Not-Jobless]

Originally posted by 632bbnova
neck is right for wheeln 9's are weak. you can not campare crawln to racing. i do both. a 9" in a 1/4 mile car is about 24"to 36" flange to flange. you could not put my 632ci bb in front of a full width 9"or 60 unless you put alot of work into it.just the housing for my car is $1.100 from morrison.

Axles are only as strong as you build them.

Yeah a 28 spline 9" is weak for wheelin.....but a 35 spline 9" is more than you will ever need.

You'll find that most people that talk shiat about 9's for wheelin either have never run one, or if they have it's been 31 spline or less and a small bearing 3rd.


Oh......and I wheel my POS with 9's F/R every weekend.....so did Mauler :confused:

[gcolby]

9" is cool